[Poll]: Mission Statement
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Posted by Beta Ker knoledgesponge
On 2008-08-04 05:57:39
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What does CyberArmy stand for and what should our community represent? What should we allow our our organization to encompass in the future?
Here are some basics:
1.) Deregulation of the Internet (Net Neutrality etc)
2.) Privacy
3.) Education
4.) Security/Programming
5.) Challenges
Within these five elements, everything that CyberArmy has stood for can be extrapolated as most of it in the past has been mostly focused on the presentation and flow of these concepts.
Things concerned about the community aspect such as are we "computer enthusiasts" have been ommitted as they are inherent.
So please vote for the combination you desire. I understand it was not possible to list *EVERY SINGLE* possible combination, so if your is not there then please use the custom option and list what we should include in the statement.
After that is determined we will worry about making it sound pretty ;)
-sp0nge
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Voted for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 [nt]
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Posted by Alpha 2nd Lt Delvian
On 2008-10-19 11:59:35
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Voted for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 [nt]
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Posted by Tr dev
On 2008-10-01 17:28:18
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Voted for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 [nt]
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Posted by Beta Tr Redkar23
On 2008-09-30 19:42:15
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Voted for 2, 4, 5 [nt]
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Posted by Gamma Tr camel
On 2008-09-28 19:34:46
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Voted for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 [nt]
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Posted by Ret. Gamma Ker RJ45
On 2008-09-28 18:15:11
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Voted for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 [nt]
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Posted by Alpha 2nd Lt rb525
On 2008-08-27 22:44:51
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Edited!
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Posted by Beta Ker knoledgesponge
On 2008-08-25 06:03:56
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CyberArmy is community dedicated to providing an environment where users can find and share information on a myriad of technology related topics including privacy and internet regulation; we do this by providing a platform to develop their skills and creativity.
If anyone has a better way of writing a similar message, please submit it.
-sp0nge
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come on
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Posted by Ker sefo
On 2008-08-25 10:53:58
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It's finished now.
We haven't had any feedback from anyone who can actually make the changes.
We haven't had any activity on any technology related forum in months.
We haven't had any article submission in months.
We haven't had any valid project in months.
CA.net is now only a community. Some people have technical knowledge, but that doesn't make it a technical community.
CA is a place where people chat on IRC, share some stuff, rant, spam on the forums and that's about it.
You're only chance is to create some environment to make people interact, like games, user space, challenges, quizzes...whatever. That will probably not attract more people than the other communities but at least you have a chance to keep the few remaining members.
Put that in place or pull the plug.
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I agree
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Posted by Alpha LtKer Venom
On 2008-08-25 19:52:33
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Per the post from dopel in another forum, there is no one around to make needed changes (or wanting to). In a way, it feels almost like the Execs that wanted the "community to run itself" while themselves being out of the way had planned/expected this and want it to go this way. I don't know how they expect a group to run itself without the ability to make changes, sounds impossible to me.
The wording of the mission statement doesn't matter, people aren't coming here to stay. The front page of the site still reflects brigades that are no longer existent or have changed. I'm assuming because no one active has the ability to change that.
As sefo has stated, it's time to pull the plug. Those that want to continue on with something similar should either go elsewhere or create something fresh and new. There is no more hope for CA.
V
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So do what you want.
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Posted by Beta Ker knoledgesponge
On 2008-08-26 06:06:37
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So do what you want, while we do what we want. There are a few of us, and I repeat...only a few who are not quite finished with this 'game'.
I myself do not have enough online time, dopel seems to have given up repeating the same things over and over, Frisp is getting married, SAJChurchey is busy. Icydemon doesn't even reply to my mail, he is part of staff and my X/O.
The simple fact is that none of us can carry CA alone, and it is when we feel like we are people start burning out all the quicker.
You are right, there are many changes needing to be implemented...but what I am worried about is not such aesthetics, but rather activity levels. The whole reason the brigade restructure was originally proposed was to increase transparency, member mobility and most importantly member retention.
People have forgotten that.
I just have a hard time saying "well that's that, the party is over. Time to go home guys" and just let the hangover be the only memory.
Yes, something needs to be done with the library, but the only thing really lacking is someone editing the articles. Yes CIS can be renamed R&D, and absorb some other projects but what will that do to change activity levels(besides making structure more intuitive)?
Not to sound egotistical, but CSAP is the most active brigade, but it is difficult to keep people motivated...but for anyone who has been in a 'command' position before knows, it has always been like that. We have just always had such a large buffer which allowed us to cheat reports and fake things.
Now, there is nowhere to hide, and no carpet to sweep the dust under.
So if anyone wishes to start a project, or participate in a project then please feel free to. If you just want to hang out on IRC, chat on the forums then that is fine as well.
-sp0nge
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So what's your plan?
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Posted by Ker sefo
On 2008-08-26 09:10:36
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You are going to change the mission statement and what?
Think up some strategies to keep new members, get them to edit library articles?
You are wasting your time and members' by repeating mistakes done by previous staff and other decision makers. These are not the changes people are waiting for. They don't care at all about it and are not going to make even a minimal effort to achieve it. (it's been like this for years)
The only things that ever worked for this community were the challenges, IRC and games. Articles and projects have been a disaster. Why do you want to insist on it?
1- Just keep a rss feed of famous sites on the main page and be done with it.
2- For projects you link to the job section of sourceforge and others.
3- Mission statement = Community of old school hackers that have entered the web2.0 era and got 0nwd. You can still come and play with us on IRC and forums or try to own our challenge.
4- Put your effort in challenges, games, irc games. Have some counter strike or warcraft tournaments, make some simple brain challenge on IRC like int16h did with the brainfuck thing...etc.
5- reset ALL ranks except admin and cinc.
6- add 4+ ranks
7- base ranks on games and challenges
8- develop and reorganise forums
9- add some simple userspace, blog thing
Asking people to work for you never works. (especially if there's no work like it's the case now)
On 2008-08-26 06:06:37, knoledgesponge wrote
>So do what you want, while we do what we want. There are a few of us, and I repeat...only a few who are not quite finished with this 'game'.
>
>I myself do not have enough online time, dopel seems to have given up repeating the same things over and over, Frisp is getting married, SAJChurchey is busy. Icydemon doesn't even reply to my mail, he is part of staff and my X/O.
>
>The simple fact is that none of us can carry CA alone, and it is when we feel like we are people start burning out all the quicker.
>
>You are right, there are many changes needing to be implemented...but what I am worried about is not such aesthetics, but rather activity levels. The whole reason the brigade restructure was originally proposed was to increase transparency, member mobility and most importantly member retention.
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>People have forgotten that.
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>I just have a hard time saying "well that's that, the party is over. Time to go home guys" and just let the hangover be the only memory.
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>Yes, something needs to be done with the library, but the only thing really lacking is someone editing the articles. Yes CIS can be renamed R&D, and absorb some other projects but what will that do to change activity levels(besides making structure more intuitive)?
>
>Not to sound egotistical, but CSAP is the most active brigade, but it is difficult to keep people motivated...but for anyone who has been in a 'command' position before knows, it has always been like that. We have just always had such a large buffer which allowed us to cheat reports and fake things.
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>Now, there is nowhere to hide, and no carpet to sweep the dust under.
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>So if anyone wishes to start a project, or participate in a project then please feel free to. If you just want to hang out on IRC, chat on the forums then that is fine as well.
>
>-sp0nge
>
>
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Right, except who's gonna do that?
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Posted by Epsilon Maj Pain in the Ass
On 2008-08-26 09:27:54
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From what we see on the forums and hear on IRC:
- there is no active CinC
- there is no active OR interested Exec
- staff has literally zero power / access
- hardly any members left with needed skillsets
- almost all prior challenge devs have left
I wrote a similiar proposal a few replies back in this very same thread. Strip CA down to what it actually can accomplish, get rid of brigades/projects, make it about challenges and a forum/irc-driven community because thats the only thing CA can do in its desolated state.
However this is just talk, the problem is trying to transfer it into action, when you are not given the power/access to actually do something. I believe thats where staff is standing at the moment and if they can't do anything and the ones above them don't want to, what is there left to hope for?
THE,
Major Pain in the Ass (of this community) aka GABB
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RE: Right, except who's gonna do that?
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Posted by Ker sefo
On 2008-08-26 10:51:14
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The problem with the leaders of this community is that they want everything with no effort at all. It should work by itself.
YES, there's work to do. And the ones paying for the hosting have to do it or at least organize some people to do it.
It's not going to work out by adding a forum and changing some words on the page.
If they fail to do it then it's the end. It means they have no ideas, no interest in an online community and asking a few members to think about some strategy without giving them any power is pathetic.
Saying there's nobody to do the changes is not an excuse to make no change.
It just shows owners of the site are either lazy or have absolutely no interest in it. (which I understand completely. I'm like them or even worse and I don't propose myself to replace them. Kudos to the one who will)
Now the only solution for them to answer is to ask knoledgesponde, icydemon, mdalby and others to stop interacting with exec until they decide something.
Otherwise they'll still think there's someone active here.
On 2008-08-26 09:27:54, Pain in the Ass wrote
>From what we see on the forums and hear on IRC:
>
>- there is no active CinC
>- there is no active OR interested Exec
>- staff has literally zero power / access
>- hardly any members left with needed skillsets
>- almost all prior challenge devs have left
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>I wrote a similiar proposal a few replies back in this very same thread. Strip CA down to what it actually can accomplish, get rid of brigades/projects, make it about challenges and a forum/irc-driven community because thats the only thing CA can do in its desolated state.
>
>However this is just talk, the problem is trying to transfer it into action, when you are not given the power/access to actually do something. I believe thats where staff is standing at the moment and if they can't do anything and the ones above them don't want to, what is there left to hope for?
>
>THE,
>Major Pain in the Ass (of this community) aka GABB
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Nail on the head
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Posted by Delta Cpt dopel
On 2008-08-26 12:26:19
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Staff has spent the last 8+ months figuring out the direction of CA under the presumption we would get the rights to impliment that plan. This was assured to us in the dfirst and only staff meeting during that time. You are right kp, I have given up. I develop software for a living and quite sure I have the skill to change mod_perl. What I won't do is waste time doing ahead to not AGAIN have those changes blocked by the powers that be.
n 2008-08-26 10:51:14, sefo wrote
>The problem with the leaders of this community is that they want everything with no effort at all. It should work by itself.
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>YES, there's work to do. And the ones paying for the hosting have to do it or at least organize some people to do it.
>
>It's not going to work out by adding a forum and changing some words on the page.
>
>If they fail to do it then it's the end. It means they have no ideas, no interest in an online community and asking a few members to think about some strategy without giving them any power is pathetic.
>
>Saying there's nobody to do the changes is not an excuse to make no change.
>It just shows owners of the site are either lazy or have absolutely no interest in it. (which I understand completely. I'm like them or even worse and I don't propose myself to replace them. Kudos to the one who will)
>
>Now the only solution for them to answer is to ask knoledgesponde, icydemon, mdalby and others to stop interacting with exec until they decide something.
>Otherwise they'll still think there's someone active here.
>
>On 2008-08-26 09:27:54, Pain in the Ass wrote
>>From what we see on the forums and hear on IRC:
>>
>>- there is no active CinC
>>- there is no active OR interested Exec
>>- staff has literally zero power / access
>>- hardly any members left with needed skillsets
>>- almost all prior challenge devs have left
>>
>>I wrote a similiar proposal a few replies back in this very same thread. Strip CA down to what it actually can accomplish, get rid of brigades/projects, make it about challenges and a forum/irc-driven community because thats the only thing CA can do in its desolated state.
>>
>>However this is just talk, the problem is trying to transfer it into action, when you are not given the power/access to actually do something. I believe thats where staff is standing at the moment and if they can't do anything and the ones above them don't want to, what is there left to hope for?
>>
>>THE,
>>Major Pain in the Ass (of this community) aka GABB
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And I don't think anyone blames you
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Posted by Alpha LtKer Venom
On 2008-08-26 16:32:42
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This site has deteriorated so much that it is not worth putting forth the effort. Especially not to have someone that could care less about changing things deny your efforts. Sad..
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RE: Right, except who's gonna do that?
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Posted by Gamma LtKer MDalby
On 2008-08-26 11:54:54
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If Staff wait for the day Exec make a decision we may as well give up now.
My honest opinion is that it's time for a change of management.
But only they have the power to do that
Going round in circles much?
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RE: So do what you want.
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Posted by Beta Ker knoledgesponge
On 2008-08-26 06:17:03
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Just for the record, icy did reply to me. I don't want anyone to think I am telling lies ;)
-sp0nge
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Vote Closed[Results & Comments]
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Posted by Beta Ker knoledgesponge
On 2008-08-18 04:59:51
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The results are as follows:
Vote #
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1, 2, 3, 4, 5 - 9/14
2, 3, 4, 5 - 1/14
3, 4, 5 - 3/14
1, 3, 4, 5 - 0/14
4, 5 - 0/14
2, 4, 5 - 0/14
1, 4, 5 - 1/14
2, 3 - 0/14
1, 2, 4, 5 - 0/14
Does this mean we keep the old Mission Statement? I do not have a problem with de-emphasizing the more idealistic aspects, but I think the vote reflects the desire of the community for them to remain important and not to tossed aside like "oh, by the way".
Is it possible to further emphasize the more solid concepts such as Programming, Security and Education without losing the passion of the original?
Previous Statement:
CyberArmy stands for freedom of thought, freedom of expression, and freedom of information on the Internet. We support the free creation, development and proliferation of ideas and knowledge through such forums as the open-source community. We recognize that in order for these ideas to flow freely, people must also possess the right to their own privacy. We further recognize that to preserve these freedoms and rights, they must be exercised responsibly. We seek to educate people about privacy and issues that threaten it, and we seek to promote the responsible use of the Internet as a medium for the sharing of thoughts, ideas, and information. We believe that the people best qualified to regulate the Internet are its users, and we seek to empower them to remove or mitigate influences which are subversive to these freedoms and rights.
This is one that dopel came up with. Very simple, down to earth and to the point:
CyberArmy is community dedicated to providing an environment where users can find and share information on relevant computer-related issues and topics, and where users have a platform to develop their skills and creativity
This does not include many of the things voted on, but if we are to make an entirely new statement it seems to be a good place to start.
-sp0nge
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So basically a vote for the status quo?
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Posted by Epsilon Maj Pain in the Ass
On 2008-08-18 19:30:00
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My professor in entrepreneurship had a simple rule of thumb for new E-Business ideas: if you can't explain it in one or two sentences, it sucks.
Not to pee on your parade here, but have you ever asked a little kid "Do you want $x?" and heard him say "Nah, I really don't need it nor can find something meaningful to do with that, I'll pass."?
If you ask someone what he wants and give him the option "all of the above", in 90% of the cases that'll be the answer. So instead of asking: What do you want in the mission statement? - why not ask: What can we/you contribute to?
Lets take a look at your options:
1.) Deregulation of the Internet (Net Neutrality etc)
2.) Privacy
3.) Education
4.) Security/Programming
5.) Challenges
What can CA contribute to #1 ? Unless you start donation drives for US politicians that support the cause, I don't see how CA can make a contribution in that area. If someone wants to prove me wrong, please do so.
Privacy/Education - if I am correctly informed the brigades/groups/members that have been assigned to those areas left CA. So ask yourself if you have the manpower to supply such services in a meaningful manner.
Security/Programming might be too generic. Depending on the programming language there are better boards out there, considering the lack of ITSec folks here, there are also better security boards available to visitors. An option maybe be Security+Programming. Focus on paradigmas and best practices on secure programming - its somewhat of a niche, but maybe you can make a difference there.
Challenges always worked for CA - why? Because once you set them up you don't need to do anything but sporadically fix bugs and restart services/bots.
So - back to the question: what CAN you actually contribute? You can definetly extend your set of challenges, you can try to specialize on secure programming or programming for itsec. I am sure there is somewhat of a demand for an information source on how to write effective brute-forcing algorithms, how to secure webapps against SQL injection, how to write basic network apps that access raw sockets and so on. Use the challenges as a starting point to get people interested. When you have to write a piece of code to pass Sered5 you might wonder if you could have done it any better / more efficient and what other applications such code might have.
De-regulation, Privacy, Education - not so much. Maybe as an aspect of Challenges and Sec/Programming, but I don't see those areas as strong points of CA.
Use something small and compact as dopel's mission statement, no one reads more than 30-40 words anyway.
THE,
GABB - aka - Pain in the Ass
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Voted for 1, 4, 5
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Posted by Ret. Delta Gen anvar
On 2008-08-13 21:42:36
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The vote is unrealistic as no-one gives a damn about 1 or has the power to change this. Privacy and education are very important, but you need a basic understanding which most people seem to lack, therefore voting 4 and 5 would be more sensible, since they might teach some of the basics. Needles to say most people lack skills here too.
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Voted for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 [nt]
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Posted by Gamma 2nd Lt istill316
On 2008-08-13 15:55:55
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Voted for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 [nt]
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Posted by Zeta Mar decoder
On 2008-08-07 10:40:50
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Voted for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 [nt]
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Posted by Gamma LtKer MDalby
On 2008-08-07 10:35:59
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2, 3, 4, 5 -nt-
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Posted by Beta Ker Dutchie99
On 2008-08-06 12:04:40
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Voted for 2, 3, 4, 5
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Posted by Gamma Cpt Ploy
On 2008-08-06 00:16:22
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The whole deregulation thing won't happen... And we certainly won't be doing anything about it... What can we say we've done toward internet deregulation since the unveiling of the new CA in 2002?
We should really keep our aim to something realistic and achievable by this "Community"
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Additional
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Posted by Gamma Cpt Ploy
On 2008-08-06 00:18:21
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I agree with sk, 5 should be a bonus and not mentioned in the mission statement.
On 2008-08-06 00:16:22, Ploy wrote
>The whole deregulation thing won't happen... And we certainly won't be doing anything about it... What can we say we've done toward internet deregulation since the unveiling of the new CA in 2002?
>
>We should really keep our aim to something realistic and achievable by this "Community"
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Voted for 3, 4, 5
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Posted by Tr champ
On 2008-08-05 23:42:50
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If I must pick some of these and ain't possible to pick all then 3,4,5 I guess.
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Voted for 3, 4, 5 -nt-
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Posted by Gamma Tr Chudik
On 2008-08-05 17:39:09
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Voted for 3, 4, 5 [nt]
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Posted by Ret. Gen Halley
On 2008-08-05 16:19:47
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Voted for 3, 4, 5 [nt]
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Posted by Gamma Cpt Goatrider
On 2008-08-05 12:29:19
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Voted for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 [nt]
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Posted by Delta Cpt dopel
On 2008-08-05 11:44:36
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Voted for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 [nt]
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Posted by Beta Gen WeWalkIn
On 2008-08-05 05:34:33
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Tried to vote for 2,3,4 /nt
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Posted by Alpha LtKer Venom
On 2008-08-05 03:52:35
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Voted for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
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Posted by Delta LtKer FrodBonzi
On 2008-08-05 03:10:52
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Of course... what it DOES and WILL stand for is a bunch of people arguing over trivialities (like this) and not actually doing anything...
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Voted for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 [nt]
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Posted by Gamma Tr k0rn
On 2008-08-05 00:05:04
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Voted for 3, 4, 5
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Posted by Gamma Maj Icydemon
On 2008-08-04 17:54:41
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Let me remind you the CAPF problem. Even if we care and if we try to do something, this doesn't mean that we'll go illegal to show the others who's doin illegal stuff.
We are not Internet's Messiahs. And if we want to be, we should be focusing on doing some serious things instead of trolling our own forums.
Is there censorship? Uncover it, send the news to media, digg it, do something. Whatever. But no, we ain't like that and wont be ever nowhere near that.
The reason is because we lack faith in us and in CA. If you are up to do something major, here's your chance.
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Voted for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 [nt]
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Posted by Gamma Cpt FriSp
On 2008-08-04 17:34:54
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1, 3, 2, 4 in that order
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Posted by Beta LtKer silverknight
On 2008-08-04 17:28:24
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Example:
"Cyberarmy is a community of computer enthusiasts who provide education, support and tools for individuals to further develope their own skills in the world of technology."
As for option 5 - challenges should be a bonus to our community but not be apart of the mission statement. But it could also be suggested that our education includes the challenges as its hard to think of completing a challenge and not learning something from it. (Aside from if you already know how to solve it. hehe)
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Voted for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
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Posted by Beta Ker knoledgesponge
On 2008-08-04 06:16:08
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I do not see anything wrong with having all of these in our statement.
Every good business and organization knows not to lock itself in, or try to become to big too soon. Our problem is not that we encompass too much, it is that we are trying to get back to where we were instead of simply being where we are.
We should doing the best we can to provide opportunities for our members.
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